Talk:Haru Okumura
Bishoujo Kaito Both Morgana and the girl called herself the Bishoujo Kaito. It seems like with Protagonist (Persona 5)'s alias The Phantom. --Cococrash11 (talk) 8:28, May 5, 2016 (UTC) Date of Birth Ok, this is starting to be ridiculous. That user claims that due to being a 3rd year and P5 taking place in 2016 Haru and the other 3rd years (Makoto, Akechi) must have been born in 1998 due to how Japanese schools work which goes from 17 to 18 years old (which is true in the case of Tatsuya who's 18) but by him doing the math Haru would have needed to be born between November and December of 1998... but if that is the case how do you explain Makoto's April, Tatsuya's July and Akechi's June? Is the explanation given not good or am I that awful at math? Crok425 (talk) 01:12, November 27, 2017 (UTC) Hi, hope I'm replying to this correctly (I don't usually make edits so I'm not used to typing on this). Makoto and Goro would also have been born in 1998. The reason is because of how Japanese school systems work . I should note that Japan rarely makes exceptions in terms of holding a student back or pushing them forward, it happens like with Ulala and Saori but it's rare, this is because Japan wants to keep everyone the same age hence why all 3rd years turn from 17 to 18 and we regress from there (also I did a breakdown tumblr post of this but it was mostly on how Yusuke/Kanij was explained but I'll instead do the 3rd years here ). Ok so children who start their 6th birthday on or before April 1st. So for someone to be a 3rd year in 2016, they'd have to have been born somewhere between April 2 1998-April 1st 1999. We know Makoto was born on April 23 and Goro was born on June 2, and then Haru was born sometime between Nov 22-Dec 21 of their same year. Since their all going to turn 18 over the course of the game (and are all 3rd years), and we know P5 takes place in 2016 because of all the hints the game gives us. And if we were to subtract 2016 from 1999 we'd get someone turning 17, not 18, and 18 is what we need for a 3rd year. So with this, Makoto/Goro/Haru all fall within 1998 (same year and age as Ken Amada btw). For more info/examples to help understand, let's go with Tatsuya. He falls with in the April 2nd 1981 and April 1st 1982 for people who would be seniors in 1999. Mitsuru, Akihiko, and Shinjiro were all born in 1991, and would've all made the cut for April 2nd 1991-April 1st 1992 Now, as for the other entries for P5 (ignoring the MC since his sign is unknown, but it would be either majority of 1999 or very early 2000, I'll get to why with Yusuke and Futaba). Ryuji and Anne need to be 1999, for similar reasons as listed above. Yusuke, however, is correct and is indeed born in early 2000, due to his birthday falling somewhere Jan 20-Feb 18, and for that to still be in Ryuji/Anne's 2nd year date, it'd have been after April 2nd of 1999 but before April 2nd of 2000. Futaba is in a similar situation, she has a "late" birthday by Japanese school date times, as she would've turned 16 (a first year age) sometime in Feb 19-March 20. For this to have happened for a 1st year she'd have to have been born in 2001 to have made the 1st year April 2nd 2000-April 1st 2001 date. (so, Yusuke and Futaba's entries are correct, but everyone else has an additional year added onto them) Also, another fun fact, Futaba is the same age as Maiko Oohashi from P3, but they are in different grades (Maiko is a grade behind Futaba, being a 3rd year in middle school) and it's due to the Japanese school system as Maiko was born later in 2001 (Sept-Oct). An example of these "late" birthdays being used in a previous game is Kanji from P4. He is the youngest on the team, and we know he was born in (Jan) 1996 while Rise (June) and Naoto (April 26) were born in 1995. But all are 1st years. That's because they all fall within the April 2nd 1995-April 1st 1996 for a first year in 2011 (and which is why everyone else can get their moped by summer but Kanji can't cause he has to wait to be 16 in January). Another example is Jun from P2, even tho he's born in 1982 he's also a senior/3rd year as Tatsuya who was born in 1981. That's because Jun has a late birthday in Feb which falls before the cut off date. I should also note I believe there is a type-o/error with Eikichi's birth year as well, he and Lisa are both 2nd years and Lisa make's sense, Eikichi does not..... He can't be a 2nd year if he was born in 1983 if his birthday was in Nov, 1983 only works if he was born between Jan-April 1st. He has to have been born in 1982 for it to have worked with Nov. I'm couldn't find his birth year in the artbooks so I'm guessing he's just experiencing the same error that the P5 kids are. Anyway, hopefully that clears things up. I know it's kinda confusing when you first look at it. ;w; Sillyfudgemonkeys (talk) 10:23, November 27, 2017 (UTC) :Nah, it's easy to understand. Yes, in that case it would make sense, I guess it would befall on Great Mara to undo the thing he did to the articles of the characters. Thanks for the explanation. Crok425 (talk) 02:41, November 28, 2017 (UTC) I don't agree with it. Also whether I agree with it or not by that logic Rise Kujikawa should be 21 but in Persona 5 the Panelist said she's 20 a month after her birthday. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1aCzRVwK5M --Cococrash11 (talk) 03:18, November 28, 2017 (UTC) :To be fair... in that panel it is said she gained sex appeal when she hit 20, it doesn't say that she's 20 per-se. Crok425 (talk) 06:47, November 28, 2017 (UTC) :Cococrash11, yes she is 21 in P5, because it is in 2016 when she turns 21, and it does work with what I've stated above. No the game does not explicitly state she is 20, all they say is "Since ''she hit 20." That sentence ''doesn't ''imply that she ''just ''turned 20, just means that she's gained sex appeal ''since ''she turned 20 (leaving the "When?" vague). Which doesn't imply now, but possibly at an earlier year, like last year, it's just vague. All they were trying to do was be vague and state that she was in her 20s (they didn't want to be too explict to give away what year it was outright, they did something similar in the Trish show in P3). We know P5 takes place in 2016 because of the calendar dates, those dates only line up with the 2011, 2016, and 2022. We know it's not 2011 because of them stating Rise is in her 20s (which she would be in 2016 and 2022). And we know it's not 2022 cause Chie would not still be in the police acadamy when she's like 28 (which she would be in 2022). So we know P5 is in 2016, and for someone to be a 3rd year in 2016 they'd have to have been born sometime in April 2nd of 1998-April 1st 1999 (and so on down the line). Hopefully this explains any discrepancies, but if there are any holes I'm open to listen. Sillyfudgemonkeys (talk) 06:56, November 28, 2017 (UTC) To be also fair circa means around not definite years like with Persona 3 and Persona 4. I've been meaning to say ever since I saw the c. in the Persona 5 characters. Since when do we even do circa. AlexShepherd just decided to add birth years Persona to Persona 2 characters and no one even change it back since I only know about it today. This come from someone who inserted nonsense like age 16-18 or 17 (may be 16 or 18 at a time). Just recently some editor decided c. years in the Persona 5 characters and no one decided to revert it. I mean when I first saw it I thought I thought The Art of Persona 5 had released the years or something since I didn't see anyone mention the years in the internet, so that wasn't the case. So here's an idea let's just get rid of the c. years it's makes the most sense. It makes sense with Persona 3 to Persona 4 since it had real years not with Persona to Persona 2 and Persona 5 since the years are 19XX and 20XX. Also when you say my name please say the whole thing. --Cococrash11 (talk) 07:23, November 28, 2017 (UTC) I was wondering about the c. too but it wasn't much of a concern for me tbh (I was more concerned about solidifying the years). So you're saying we should def get rid of the c. for P3/4 but not P1/2/5? It makes sense since P1/2/5 were hinted at but never outright stated. As long as we've come the agreement that Goro/Makoto/Haru are 1998, Anne/Ryuji are 1999, Yusuke is 2000, Futaba is 2001 (and MC is c. 1999/2000, also Eikichi needs to be changed to 1982 too), then I'm fine (if we haven't come to that agreement...well...I guess we'll keep discussing XD). Could I propose one more thing? I remember P3 pages having it in there's, where like Akihiko's stated "Age P3: 17 (18)" signifying he turned form 17 to 18 during the game, I was wondering if it'd be alright to add something like that to the P5 kids (and some P4 entries) as well. Also sorry about the name thing, I usually just shorten names and I was just going to use "Coco" but then I decided to do the long version instead, but the 11 accidentally got deleted when I re-wrote my sentence. I re-added the 11 above. Sillyfudgemonkeys (talk) 07:48, November 28, 2017 (UTC) What are you talking about I mean't getting rid of the c. years in Persona to Persona 2 and Persona 5 not Persona 3 and Persona 4 since Persona 3 and Persona 4 actually had real years not approximately. --Cococrash11 (talk) 08:00, November 28, 2017 (UTC) Wait....but....circa is for approximates'' tho, you don't use circa if you know the actual date like with P3/4. We know for sure what P3/4's dates cause they appear in-game. So we wouldn't use them for P3/4. And while we can deduce P1/2/5's dates, it'd make sense to use circa since it was never stated out-right, we still don't have to use circa for P1/2/5 but it's no harm no foul if we do. So I don't know why we'd use circa, used for approximating years, on the games we know the dates but not on the ones we're techically approximating....Sillyfudgemonkeys (talk) 08:12, November 28, 2017 (UTC) :We shouldn't get rid of the circa for P1, P2 and P5. Sure, the years are never stated but we know in what year it takes place due to dialogue in P2 and P5. Innocent Sin takes place in August of 1999 due to the Grand Cross, Eternal Punishment in February of 2000 as an NPC states and how Katsuya says the Grand Cross already happened, P1 in 1996 due to how IS and EP refer to its events as happening 3 years ago and 4 years ago respectively, and we know when P5 takes place by basing ourselves in the real calendar and in-game hints like Rise and whatnot. Even if the games don't explecetly say what year it is it still leaves hints that tell us it's 1996, 1999, etc. as such leaving the circa is fine. Crok425 (talk) 09:32, November 28, 2017 (UTC) The circa year should just be in Persona, Persona 2, and Persona 5 articles not at the character articles it just doesn't look good in a character articles. But before I move on from this is there a reason why in Persona 3 to Persona 4 they use real years but in Persona 5 they decided to use 20XX instead. Even before the announcement of Persona Q 2 how would they deal with real and 20XX years if they ever plan to have a crossover game would they use the real years or 20XX years. Wouldn't it be easier to use real years instead. Do you know why even a guess would be fine. --Cococrash11 (talk) 06:45, December 1, 2017 (UTC) :I actually think it looks normal having the circa in the character articles (some wikis like the MGS wiki uses it IIRC), since it's just this "c.year", it's not that much of a deal, really. Hell if I know, since I'm not 100% sure I'm guessing it's due to the game dealing with political elections, political corruption and such, if Japan did indeed had an electoral campaign in 2016 then it might've looked that P5 might have a political agenda or whatever, who knows. It could also be cuz Hashino didn't like that the game happened in the same year the game released since there was a trend in P3 and P4 happening years after the release... I dunno, it's fishy this last one since there are hints of it being 2016... so I dunoo. Crok425 (talk) 07:05, December 1, 2017 (UTC) :Ok so we're in agreement for circa for P1/2/5 and not P3/4 for main articles but not individual characters? That's fine with me. Ok so the reason why P5 (and also P1/2) used XX years. It's because the games were released either on said year or right next to it (in EP's case it released a year later, as apparently there's dialogue that it takes place in late/fall 1999 and not 2000 but EP's year thing is for another time). With P3/4, there was like....a 3-ish year difference between the release date and the games' actual year (as well as the added benefit of placing the games in the future instead of 2006/2008). The reason is most likely because Atlus wants to distance itself from any controversy of "the people in this game don't resemble people in real life." With P3/4, with it taking place in the future, they can easily say "Oh well.....it's not like we know the future!" But with P1/2/5 taking place in the year it was release (and actually having people whom are based off real life people), they had to put the XX there since they didn't have the "well it's the future! We can't predict the future!" excuse that P3/4 did. It's possible that P5 was going to have it's 2016 calendar date originally back when the first release date was announced (2014), but they had to get rid of it due to delaying the game till the same year the game took place. So that's why P3/4 use real years, and P1/2/5 don't. : As for future/crossover games.....it's up in the air to be honest. Right now P3/5D seem to just be re-tellings of P3/5 but from dance (this is my observation of the trailers and interviews, no official word has come out besides "we're not going to have a story mode like P4D but it'll have a different mode to replace it"), so a date is probably just going to be the same as P3/5's dates. With PQ2, I wouldn't be surprised if they did a similar thing with PQ where it takes place in a pocket dimension with all the characters from different timelines pulled in there. If they choose to address the "Wow we come from different times!" thing like they did with PQ, it'll either be: them outright stating P5 is in 2016, vaguely stating "oh you're 5/7 years older than us!", or they get cut off before the player gets to hear it (and then it's either ignored or told off screen).....that is if they don't choose to ignore the issue all together. As for something like Arena, I can see them keeping the XX, even if adult P3/4 characters show up....I think until we get P6, and that's if P6 follows a similar release patter as P3/4 did with a 3ish year time difference, and we get spinoffs with an older cast of P5 characters, we probs won't see a real date till then. At least Atlus doesn't keep it hidden and they give us enough hints to figure it out ourselves. Sillyfudgemonkeys (talk) 07:19, December 1, 2017 (UTC) :I mentioned in the P5 talk page that P2 Innocent Sin takes place in 1999 (August) and Eternal Punishment in 2000 (February). And no, I actually think that P1, P2 and P5 characters should keep the circa. Crok425 (talk) 07:36, December 1, 2017 (UTC) :People have pointed out that characters in EP would've been a year older if it had been in 2000 (aka Katsuya would've been 26 in EP if it was in 2000, but the game still states he's 25 or whatever), and that the game takes place in fall 1999 (with the ending scene possibly taking place in 2000), their evidence here (this is just one person, but I've seen other people talk about it too and it's pretty sound tbh). I'm fine with whatever on the circa thing, but I'll put my vote toward just keeping it there (it's not hurting anybody tbh). Sillyfudgemonkeys (talk) 07:57, December 1, 2017 (UTC) No, look at the talk page of Persona 5, it literally says in Innocent Sin that the events of P1 happened "3 years ago" while Eternal Punishment says it happened "4 years ago", EP happens in February of the year 2000, an NPC says it's February. Or to make it easier here http://gabriulio.tumblr.com/post/93346175185/how-persona-and-persona-2-fit-into-the-series. Your source is incomplete because it seems to ignore those points of the 4 year gap and the February date. Crok425 (talk) 21:16, December 1, 2017 (UTC) Oooooo thanks for linking it. Well.....hmmmm....This is an issue if half the fandom say early 2000 and the other says late 1999. I originally believed it was 2000 and then a bunch of people were like "NO! It's 1999!" so yeah.... It doesn't help that Atlus doesn't have the best track record for minor math/date errors: as in your source also mentions Baofu's error with Trish's show, and then a minor one with Naoto talking about the wrong number of months since the killing began (of course this could be a misstranslation). And if it is 2000 there's a mathmatical error with Ulala and Katsuya's birthdates..... I'll see if I can find some original japanese lines and if I can find some artbook entries to help figure out which is more correct (or if there's just some key info we're missing). But keep it as 2000 for now esp since that seems the most correct and def makes the most sense, if I don't find anything about Katsuya/Ulala's changed ages, then we might have a piece of trivia similar to Baofu's then (aka wrong age's). Sillyfudgemonkeys (talk) 07:30, December 2, 2017 (UTC) Haru Okumura Does anyone know the Etymology for Haru Okumura's last name. --Cococrash11 (talk) 08:01, November 28, 2017 (UTC) 奥 in japanese means "heart/interior" or "inside something," while "村" means "village" or "town." So it'd probably mean something like "the heart of the village/town" or "inside/interior of the village/town." Sillyfudgemonkeys (talk) 08:14, November 28, 2017 (UTC)